Debate Winner: Obama or McCain?
October 7, 2008 at 10:00 pm 45 comments
I admitted when I thought Palin had lost her debate, but I think McCain won this one. McCain may have started slow, because everyone wants to blame the Republicans when something goes wrong with the economy. You know, the real government body that is able to pass regulations and make laws is Congress. Hasn’t this body been majority Democratic since 2006? Shouldn’t over 2 years be enough time to fix things? Aren’t the big players in Congress that are in charge of our financial situations Democrats?
By the end McCain had proved himself and his position. He doesn’t speak as well as Obama, but Obama couldn’t use his classy rhetoric to win it tonight.
I loved how Obama contradicted himself several times, but one major case was with Iraq and genocide. Obama criticizes McCain for supporting the attacks on Iraq. He said we should have never gone there. Later when asked what we should do with global issues of genocide and cruel leaders that didn’t affect our national security, he said we have a moral responsibility to take on these leaders and prevent another Holocaust. Now if we look back at Hussein, wasn’t he sentenced to death because of genocide? So this case was not one of those that we should have prevented apparently!
McCain is going to prevail. Obama can’t pick a position, and all of the things Biden said last week were not carried over to this debate. Does that mean Obama doesn’t have a clue, or Biden has his own agendas? I think Obama is lost and can’t find the right thing to say now…
Obama also wants to impose tax hikes on small businesses over $250,000. He tells us that is only a small percentage of small businesses, but we know 50% of small businesses are above this line. Let’s put this in perspective: If you have 3 employees who make $50,000, by the time you pay salaries, taxes, insurance (which Obama wants to enforce small business employers to provide better insurance instead of supporting their employee’s individual plans), offie expenses, rent, etc., you will have to make well over $250,000 in revenue. Now I don’t know about you, but 3 employees is a pretty small business, and for Obama to make it out like his tax hikes won’t affect many small businesses, he is wrong!
As I have stated before, the treasury department has shown through several analyses that tax cuts on everyone, including those over $250,000 has resulted in more taxes paid by the top 1% and then top 10%, and the government collected $780 Billion more dollars in tax revenue after our last series of tax cuts. Taxing the rich, as Obama wants to do, is only going to hurt middle America. Do you think someone who makes millions and millions is going to suffer from a $200,000 tax increase? NO!!! But placing tax increases on small businesses over $250,000, which are 50% of all small businesses, will destroy our economy!
Entry filed under: General, Politics. Tags: Election '08, mccain, Obama.
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Politics For Average People 
1.
Kelley West | October 7, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Two years for a democratic congress to fix the egregious goings on of the previous six? Pipe dreams.
2.
mike | October 7, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Obama could not pass a background check with his mysterious pass.
Hmmm lived in Indonesia, Kenyan father with ties to radical government officials, half brother living in box in Kenya on a dollar a day, had a Saudi Muslim write a letter to get him into Harvard (why not release your grades from Columbia?) Did you not get into Harvard without shell money from the Saudi’s to fund your education? Who paid off your student loans? Release those documents Obama.
Then you have a Pakistani roommate in college and head to Pakistan for 6 weeks? French Riveria? NO but Pakistan. THen you are associated with Louis Farrakahn and Rashid Kashid and then 20 years with Rev. Wright….. PATTERN?
Ask yourself if the Feds would not pass an average person with a background check such as this handling your US information, why would you vote for this MYSTERIOUS guy?????
Voting for McCain the true patriot!!!!!
3.
Michelle | October 7, 2008 at 10:13 pm
You’re a moron… Stick with your day job.. hopefully it’s not politics.
4.
averagepolitics | October 7, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Kelley,
It disappoints me to see Dems trying to blame Bush for everything. How can a president who only gets to sign bills after BOTH houses of Congress have passed the bills, after their committees have passed it, and the committee’s chairpeople have passed it? Then, if Bush did create something that Congress (Democratic for the last 2 years) didn’t like, they could veto it with 2/3 vote.
Why not look to your Democratic Congress before blaming the president. The said truth is, if McCain is elected it will be so hard to fight the ridiculous Dem Congress!
5.
averagepolitics | October 7, 2008 at 10:18 pm
Thanks, Michelle. These kind of liberal, fact-less comments make me happy. You just prove that you have nothing more than stupid words with nothing to back it up!!!
Call me more names… It makes me proud!
6.
K Wright | October 7, 2008 at 10:18 pm
1. Hussein committed these acts 20 years ago , so we did not go in \to Iraq for those reasons.
2. If the middle class and lower class has more money they can spend more so the small businesses will make more money and they will not feel the effects of higher taxes.
3. He is going to have the same tax plan that Bill Clinton had, we were doing great under that tax plan. We had a surplus of cash.
7.
averagepolitics | October 7, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Ohhhhhh….. so if it was years ago, it’s okay??? I agree we did not go to war on this pretense, it was for other reasons, but at least that could be included, if Obama is about Saving The World…
So if you tax the crap out of small businesses, but the poor and middle class who are just trying to put food on the table has more money for food, those small businesses will be okay? Doesn’t that seem pointless? Tax small businesses and hope that the lower classes will give them more business? Wow, I don’t think that works with modern Economics…
8.
Dave | October 7, 2008 at 10:24 pm
I’m sorry but getting a democratic congress for two years is the only thing that prevented the president from completely destroying this country.
It was the beginning of the American people saying enough, it’s time for a change.
When Obama becomes president that will complete our statement started two years ago.
Enough is enough.
9.
Michelle | October 7, 2008 at 10:26 pm
The fact of the matter “Average,” is that the republicans are so closed minded. I basically feel as if they are of the mind set that if they don’t listen or look, they won’t see or hear. They are not hearing the ever so obvious facts that Obama has been trying to point out. Those of what will make this a better nation, and why his opponent will not.
I want to know what perfect little world conservatives are living in that they think we as a nation can continue with more of the same?
10.
averagepolitics | October 7, 2008 at 10:27 pm
Dave,
Imagine Obama as President and Democrats holding majorities in the House and with a possible 60 vote margin Senate.
Goodbye, 2nd amendment rights.
Goodbye, protection for the unborn.
Goodbye, tax breaks.
Goodbye, diligence against state sponsored terrorism from rogue governments like Iran, North Korea, and others.
Goodbye, parental rights as a fundamental right to not be supplanted by the government.
Goodbye, holding traditional marriage as one man, one woman for life.
I’m not ready to accept that.
11.
averagepolitics | October 7, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Michelle,
A socialist nation has never worked. We will fall even further from the world scene and become slaves to our government.
Democratic principles sound good if you want to be given everything, but if you want to succeed and have a prosperous business, Democrats will take it all in taxes!
Why should I have to pay for someone else to have a good life? They should strive to obtain it themselves!
12.
TheOldSchool | October 7, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Anyone who watched this debate and came away thinking McCain won is unconnected to reality. It was a blowout by Obama. Only a simpering nitwit could think otherwise.
13.
averagepolitics | October 7, 2008 at 10:38 pm
A blowout? The only blowing was Obama blowing smoke up your butt! He can’t say anything without making it a cute story and avoiding answering anything with factual evidence and an established position!
I will take the position of simpering nitwit!
Throw more names out, please!
14.
TheOldSchool | October 7, 2008 at 10:41 pm
P.S., If the writer of this “Politics For Average People” blog considers himself average, I’d suggest that he is seriously over-estimating his intellectual capabilities.
A more accurate title would be: “A Dim-Witted Perspective on Politics From A Kool-Aid Chugging Brain-Dead Suburbanite.”
15.
steve | October 7, 2008 at 10:42 pm
re: taxes on small business
You are taxed on PROFIT, not revenue. The example that you provide is not correct. All of the things you cite are expenses. Revenues – expenses = profits, and that is what is taxed.
16.
Jack | October 7, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Small Businesses and Taxes
Obama defended his tax plan against McCain’s charge that “Obama’s secret that you don’t know is that his tax increases will increase taxes on 50 percent of small business revenue.” Obama responded that “only a few percent of small businesses make more than $250,000 a year. So the vast majority of small businesses would get a tax cut under my plan.” TRUE…AND TRUE: Only 4.3 percent of the total U.S. businesses are small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year, according to tax data. It’s also possible that a majority of “small business revenue” comes from these firms. Obama is referring to the number of firms, McCain is referring to the concentration of revenue at the top-end of the small business food chain. Both managed to make the facts work for their arguments.
(ABC News Fact Check: McCain, Obama Charges and Countercharges)
There it is…
I recommend going to factcheck.org and ontheissues.org whenever possible. This election is too important for us not to actively fill in the gaps of our knowledge wherever possible, rather than catering to our most abstract fears. Neither candidate is perfect, in each case you’ll have to compromise, and it’s fair to evaluate where these shortcomings may lie.
And Dave, support your fears with as many facts as you can find, especially if these fears are justified.
17.
averagepolitics | October 7, 2008 at 10:42 pm
If you can bring some actual facts about anything you say OldSchool, people might listen… Nevermind, you listen to Obama so that must not be true!
Suburbanite? Creative…
18.
Boyd Rubin | October 7, 2008 at 10:46 pm
I just have to point out that income tax is levied on the net, not the gross income. A business with 3 employees that made 50,000 each might gross $1 Million and still only pay taxes on 250,000. In fact, that would be 25% net which for most businesses is better than they can hope for. If the business is incorporated, the principles might be paying taxes on far less.
19.
averagepolitics | October 7, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Jack,
Very well said. Thanks for your input! I agree that both candidates are flawed! I wanted to see Huckabee running because I think he is the most honest and sincere candidate I have seen in a good while.
Thanks for the facts!
20.
averagepolitics | October 7, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Steve and Boyd,
You make good points about net income, but the example is just to show the minuscule size of a small business that would be hurt by Democratic tax hikes.
Also, history will show that Democratic tax hikes will gradually slide down the scale as they need more money for bigger government.
21.
miq | October 7, 2008 at 10:54 pm
I feel sorry for the Left..They are lost souls who think more Govt.. is the answer. You were right al Dems can do is bash Republicans…
22.
TheOldSchool | October 7, 2008 at 10:56 pm
I just looked at post 10.
Oh dear. What medications are you on? Did you empty the contents of each bottle all at once? If you need emergency medical care, wait until morning.
You do realize that every single point you make is wrong.
Furthermore, the choice of issues you chosen in your list shows what a deluded right-wing talk-show-listening/Fox-watching tool you are.
I’ll leave you to your insane fantasies. Good evening.
23.
averagepolitics | October 7, 2008 at 11:00 pm
OldSchool,
If my points are wrong, explain. You can’t. You talk crap about what I say, but can’t say anything to rebute them! In post 16, facts were presented that corrected some of my comments and views. I like that.
You just talk about medications and popping pills. If that is acceptable in your house, good for you. You probably used Medicare to get them, so in the end, I helped pay for your addictions… Thanks!
24.
Andrew | October 7, 2008 at 11:00 pm
I watched this debate in its entirety and I’m one who leans republican on most issues. Neither “won” this debate. Obama didn’t risk much with his answers (Which I expected) but McCain didn’t come through with a victory. He looked much better than his first debate, but didn’t do enough to make up ground. I was hoping the candidates would mention more specifics about social security. I also think Obama did a better job with the explanation of the bailout plan… I’m glad McCain didn’t sink after that because it was a poor start for him.
All that said, I believe in smaller government, spending money on the protection of our nation which is an intangible expense that doesn’t come back to us as profit, lower taxes, and freedom to choose health care without fear of fines and mandated checkups. I believe that we should be free in all we do and not sculpted by government policy with how to live our lives.
25.
jeremy | October 7, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Dave,
Imagine Obama as President and Democrats holding majorities in the House and with a possible 60 vote margin Senate.
Goodbye, 2nd amendment rights.
>> un-substantiated.
Goodbye, protection for the unborn.
>> what about protection for the born? for the troops? for the sick?
Goodbye, tax breaks.
>> if you make over 250,000 a year. if you do, then stop b*tching.
Goodbye, diligence against state sponsored terrorism from rogue governments like Iran, North Korea, and others.
>> right. bush has done such a wonderful job with this. i’d hate to see a *gasp* democratic president attempt this. he’d probably want to hold their hand and frolic in the knee high grass with them.
Goodbye, parental rights as a fundamental right to not be supplanted by the government.
>> what?
Goodbye, holding traditional marriage as one man, one woman for life.
>> yea. this will negate one of the fundamental laws of physics and everything will cease to exist. learn to hate less, man. you will find your days more pleasing.
I’m not ready to accept that.
>> Some of your points, valid, are grossly mis-prioritized based on the last eight years this country has been through. You are willing to hit the reset button and see this country go to hell so you can fight for your second amendment right that nobody has even threatened to take away. You are fighting with ghosts, my friend. I can only assume you get your information from extremely opinionated sources.
By the way, I was a Huckabee fan and would have voted for McCain in 2000 over Bush. I’m extremely independent and encourage you to ask as many questions of Republicans as you do about Democrats.
26.
averagepolitics | October 7, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Jeremy,
As a Huckabee fan, you would probably know that those positions cam straight from an email from Huckabee to his PAC supporters.
Although that is an opinionated source, I stand behind it.
I don’t think this country has been going in the right direction with Bush. Some things have been right, many have been wrong, but Obama is not the answer. In fact, McCain is the best transition from Bush to a better president, such as Huckabee.
27.
Peaches | October 7, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Is this a KKK blog? Sounds like alot of angry racist people. Time for a CHANGE.
28.
averagepolitics | October 7, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Peaches,
I don’t understand where in the world your comment comes from… I guess you are in the boat that if we don’t like Obama, we are racist. Great way to approach this political race.
29.
Red | October 7, 2008 at 11:46 pm
I do believe in the greatness of this country. It has survived wars, economic crises, etc., and kept its democracy intact.
To say that this country will become socialist if Obama becomes president is the most fear-mongering, hate mongering, despicable, and unpatriotic thing I have ever heard in this campaign.
It denigrates the sensibility of the great people of this country. This is not a country of morons. To say that the above will happen is tatntamount to saying that.
Anybody who believes and spreads the fear-mongering rumour that this bastion of democracy will become a socialist country just because of one man is an unpatriotic feeble-minded drone who would spit at his fellow Americans that do not subscribe to his point of view.
30.
Troy | October 7, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Obama won, McCain knows it. That’s why he left so quickly… and wouldn’t shake Obama’s hand.
It’s sad… I used to love McCain. The rogue republican who bucked the system. Now, I feel like he’s sold his soul to the NeoCon base to win the election he’s been running for decades.
For me, Obama presented solutions… especially on energy. McCain presented his record, which is honorable, but your actions now and in the future are more important than the past.
Unfortunately, McCain is more of the same. Same ideals, same principals, same policies that have guided this nation to where it is now.
I’m sorry McCain… I am grateful for your service to this country, both in the military and in the government. However, your ideas and ideals are out of date and out of time.
31.
Scott Abrahm Jr. | October 8, 2008 at 12:02 am
Look, your wrong on all counts. Please site your sources, McCain will not prevail because Mrs. Palin is not ready to lead as Vice President. McCain has experience and is a war hero, However him choosing Palin was the worst thing he could have done. Do you know how many woman hate her. she is as a step backward for feminists they say where did we go wrong on her.
Vote Obama, The right choice good vp and a great president. Biden, when polled by undecided voters had 80 percent say he was ready while 54 percent say no to palin. Stop being Ignorant!
32.
Phred | October 8, 2008 at 12:12 am
Yep, your an idiot. McCain used to be a person of honor who I had a great deal of respect for. But he’s going the same way as Hillary and other old school politicians, sucking up to folks that don’t really have the same thing belief structure and going negative. Thank god the average American is starting to see through it. Thank god this election will go to someone of intellect, not to a guy who came in last in his class at a college he would never had been in if it weren’t for his daddy. No wonder the idiot got shot down. They should have never let him fly a plane in the first place.
33.
Wahchu Spekt | October 8, 2008 at 2:59 am
I just wanted to tell you how stupid and wrong you are with the same old language, “Change!”
34.
averagepolitics | October 8, 2008 at 8:17 am
Wahchu,
Thanks for letting me know I am stupid. I am not the one talking “Change!” without any kind of proof behind it. Obama tells you he is going to do this and he is going to do that, but how?
He is going to lower taxes for 95%, but 40% of the population doesn’t pay taxes… What are you going to do, give them a check? And if so, who is going to pay for that???
35.
memetrics | October 8, 2008 at 9:10 am
Interesting take. I thought Palin won her debate, and that McCain has lost both of his. While the Democrats are largely to blame for our current financial woes–the list of their sins go on and on, from Chris Dodd to Barney Frank to Franklin Raines to Jim Johnson to Jimmy Carter–I’m not so sure McCain is the guy to clean up “politics is usual”. Despite all the hate from the left, McCain practically is a Democrat. Yes, he made a half-hearted effort to reign in Fannie Mae, but even if had come to pass it wouldn’t be enough.
Look for more of the same from president Obama or president McCain, if you ask me.
36.
dukedaley | October 8, 2008 at 9:28 am
I don’t think you can really “win” a debate at this point. We’re less than a month away from the election and if you don’t know who you’re going to vote for yet, you probably shouldn’t be voting at all.
Duke
37.
angelofrage | October 8, 2008 at 9:50 am
One quick note on the tax issue; revenue is not taxed. NET profit after salaries and expenses are what is taxed, in order words the remainder after everything gets paid.
38.
PolitiPornster | October 8, 2008 at 10:52 am
For the debate, I thought that McCain lost it. I’m not trying to be too nuanced here but at the same time Obama didn’t win it. McCain came across as a grumpy old man with no new ideas. Obama was dull and uninspiring.
http://www.politiporn.com
Stepping away from the debate, I was at my doctor’s office yesterday. He and I started talking politics. As a doctor, he’d likely classify as a small business owner, presumably McCain’s base.
He told me that at first, he was voting for McCain. However, after the Palin pick and watching her interviews and the VP debate, he’s decided that he can’t vote for McCain. With McCain’s age and health problem my doctor doesn’t feel comfortable with Caribou Barbie a heartbeat away.
39.
ifiwererunningforpresident | October 8, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Stop being a dramatic fearmongerer.
We all know that neither McCain nor Obama’s tax policy will significantly alter our lifestyles. We are talking about small percentage differences (less than 10 percent) between the two.
And its funny that people will point to taxation as a hindrance to business growth while ignoring the important role that education/health/transportation spending plays in developing a robust economy. Taxes pay for the development of civilization, particularly along long-term avenues.
We cannot reasonably expect for-profit industries to provide long-term but low-profit infrastructure like roads, schools and hospitals. While McCain is obsessed with claiming the tax lowering crown, I believe Obama’s plan represents a more thoughtful approach to the economy.
Lower taxes offer instant gratification but a well-equipped society offers the best long-term stability. I believe in the America that stands for freedoms everlasting, not the one that seeks only to fatten the wallets of the few.
40.
sikhpath | October 8, 2008 at 1:17 pm
I believe you are living in a fantasy world just like McCain. The war was a total failure. We have the biggest army currently tangled in so many wars with our economy spiraling out of control, and McCain is a vital component of Republican deregulation and war mongering. I was a Mccain supporter until I realized that lower taxes for our wealthy family was no longer worth it in the midst of disaster. We cannot afford to have McCain and worse Palin as president. My own article on “Crossing Over to Obama” explains why.
41.
samal85 | October 8, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Your comments seem skewed to the political right, which I assume doesn’t surprise you. My political views lean toward the left, so it’s obvious that I disagree with your polemics. What I’m concerned with is the use of misconstrued information when trying to get your point across. I’m not saying Obama tells the truth and McCain is a liar; they’re both politicians with secrets they may not want revealed, and they both have their own agenda regarding the presidency. The only thing that worries me is when you mention Obama criticizing the surge in Iraq and tying it to the execution of Hussein as a means to justify mass genocide. I doubt Obama thinks Hussein shouldn’t have been put to death and I think it is fair to say we had no place to invade Iraq. The fact that we captured Hussein as a result of the invasion is a positive tradeoff to this destructive military presence.
42.
Tom Peters | October 8, 2008 at 5:07 pm
I have to agree with you. The shit didn’t really start hitting the fan until the Democrats took control. They have hindered progress in Iraq and most benefitted from the compaines recieving the $700B bailout plan.
Obama is a excellent bullshit artist, but I fear that average people won’t see into it. Same thing happened for JFK.
Plus I wonder how many dead people in Chicago are going to vote for Obama this year.
mntaxi.wordpress.com
43.
Antenna Wilde | October 8, 2008 at 8:32 pm
If you make 250,000 dollars a year, and you pay 150,000 in payroll, your income is not 250,000. There’s a difference between net and gross. BTW, Big corporations that ship American jobs overseas pay ZERO in taxes. On *paper* they *do* but in fact, they don’t. When you’re a multimillion dollar entity, you’ve got teams of lawyers steering you through the loopholes (loopholes Bush enlarged ten-fold, and McCain voted for.) His beer-heiress wife doesn’t pay much in taxes either. They’re part of the upper 1% who never do.If you make between 20,000 and 200,000, you pay a LOT of taxes. That $ goes to corporate welfare and companies like Halliburton, who charge the taxpayer $120 for a hammer, $29 for a nail, and $1,000,000,000 bonuses for execs who shuffle papers around. But any way you slice it, it’s blood-money.
44.
averagepolitics | October 8, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Antenna,
Do you realize that the top 1% pays 37% of our taxes? Do you know that the top 10% pays 68% of our taxes? I love how you liberals talk a lot of shit, but can’t say anything that adds up to truth…
I think it is funny that you think people that make less than $200,000 pay a LOT of taxes… Those people pay not much in taxes. And although I am part of that population, I anticipate being part of the upper portion of the tax bracket. I don’t want to pay the way for all of losers that don’t want to do shit but work for the man and complain about it. Do something original, start a company, and make your own way!
Thanks Antenna, for your comments, bring on some facts, and less bullshit!
45.
asimplesinner | October 8, 2008 at 10:42 pm
44 comments in less than 24 hours. I am rather jealous, we don’t get that over at The Black Cordelias…
This is the little blog that could!